In the second episode of TezTalks Radio, hosts Brian Li and William McKenzie discuss STOs in-depth and what they mean for Tezos, Tezos Academy’s public beta release from OCTO Technology, and more.

Transcript

William: Welcome, everyone, to the second episode of TezTalks Radio. I’m your host, William McKenzie of Tezos Commons. And today I’m joined with Brian Li, our co-host of Tezos Commons. Brian, how are you doing today?

Brian: I’m doing great. We had a crazy thunderstorm last night. You probably saw on my Instagram story.

William: Yeah, yeah. Actually, I think I did see that.

Brian: Yeah, it was like a torrential rain storm. I’m sure if you’re listening on the East Coast, I’m. I was in Boston, so. You know, we just had this huge rainstorm, huge thunderstorm, probably lasted maybe an an hour or so and then completely disappeared. And today was a super nice day. So I went out for a few walks today, just trying to relax a bit. So, yeah, it was a great day and I’m excited to chat about Tezos now.

William: Yeah, it’s kind of funny. You mentioned that we’ve actually had a lot of rain here. It’s actually well, it started raining fairly heavily. I want to say yesterday, too, but it was supposed to rain today, tomorrow and the next day, and it just really hasn’t done anything. So I guess was a false call. Yeah, the world’s a weird place right now. Speaking of it being such a weird place, how have you been coping amidst coronavirus?

Brian: I don’t know, man. Like every every day just feels like the same. I really don’t know what to say about. I think things are starting to relax a bit, which at least in the states. I don’t know if that’s really a good idea at the moment. It seems like where, you know, we haven’t really flattened the curve yet as they say.

Just walking around town today. You know, I didn’t really see that many people with face masks on. Even though I believe Massachusetts, like, required it. If you’re gonna go outside, if you’re above the age of 8, you’re supposed to be wearing some kind of mask on your face. Whether that’s a doctor’s mask or one that you make at home, at least slap something on your face if you’re gonna go out.

Yeah, I was driving around today and, you know, you see all these high schoolers and and people Atrous riding their bike around town. We have a pretty nice lake here. So he saw some people walking around the lake. Nothing on their face. And yeah, just seems like the news cycle is over her maybe. I don’t know. People are going back to normal even though this virus is a very real thing.

William: Yeah. You know, especially where I’m at. You know, you can only have, I believe, one person per family enter a grocery store and actually have some family live back in Florida. And, you know, the governor pretty much lifted everything there so you can go back out onto the beaches now, which, you know, in the middle of a pandemic. It’s like, why would you do that?

Brian: Yeah, there seems like there’s a few different ways of handling it. Some states for sure are taking it more seriously than others.

William: Yeah, no, it’s it’s pretty crazy. And speaking of crazy, we also had the Bitcoin having recently and you know, even more recent than that, we saw J.K. Rowling tweet about bitcoin.

Brian: I don’t think the Bitcoin having like ended up being what people thought it would be. Some people were saying it’s going to break eleven thousand five hundred and, you know, it might go all the way to fifteen thousand. There’s a lot of influencers on Twitter throwing around stuff like that. So be careful. Yeah, the J.K. Rowling thing was pretty funny. And then you have all these influencers now who have changed their profile picture, changed their names, like I think crypto bit Lord did that. And then you and then I guess who that CEO of Coinbase, Brian Armida.

William: Brian Armstrong. He yeah, he he made a tweet that he commented on a fake account. And now that I think s.z. made one too.

Brian: Yeah I think made one and then he deleted it. I don’t know. He always delete stuff as true. So enough about Cova 19 and bitcoin. But we’re here to talk about today this episode we are going to do, you know, some general news updates as well as a deep dove into as STOs or security token offerings, which Tezos is very well known for. So I’m going to share my thoughts on STOs in a bit. But first, well, do you want to give a brief overview of what STOs are and why? Tezos is the best platform for STOs at the moment. Sure.

William: So we’ve seen all these numbers thrown around. You know, there’s can be a billion dollars tokenized on the Tezos blockchain here, a billion dollars there. You have six hundred forty three million dollars there and it’s a lot of money. So you look at Tezos and the curious observer will ask himself, why is everyone wanting to, you know, issue and conduct dress? STOs on Tezos think it really boils down to the value proposition that Tezos offers to go further and depth on that.

You know, there’s three focal points, you know, with an tasos, there’s institutional great smart contracts since Tezos utilizes bermel verification, which, you know, simply put, it’s a process that proves the mathematical correctness of the code. The Tezos blockchain allows for the facilitation of formally verified smart contracts. No, essentially prior to sending, you know, X amount, whether it be in the case of, you know, take Elevated Returns, for instance, a billion dollars prior to sending that a billion dollars over the blockchain. One can run a formal test to simulate the transaction and ensure that it executes smoothly. So this kind of prevents that whole whoops, you know, one billion dollars. Sorry there, guys. There goes a screwed up. This kind of prevents that.

When we look at other chains, too, they make a big deal out of this because they also allow formal verification. So what is Tezos make an even bigger deal? Well, it’s because Tezos aims to be a high security. And high value chain. And they want to make these practices, you know, really rigorous. And, you know, having a high amount of safety, being key practices. So in other words, you know, formal verification, then, Tezos, it’s kind of a cultural thing. And that’s really what they strive to do. The other point is secure custody within the Tezos client software and includes a formerly verified multi signature contract. This essentially allows for cold storage, deployment and management of smart contracts for the highest level security when aiming to be a highly complex and high value chain like Tezos. This is very crucial in storing and deploying large amounts of capital over the blockchain.

Brian: Yeah, you own a screw around with a hot wallet somewhere just on your desktop. You know, if you’re dealing with millions or even billions or in some people’s case, you know, even if they have 100 bucks worth of bitcoin, they’re going to want to put it on a cold wallet. Anything that is on the Internet connected to a network is susceptible to attack. As someone who is in charge of capital, you know you want to reduce the vector of attack as much as possible. So very important to have to be able to interact with the chain through a cold storage just going off.

William: And that’s the last note. And probably, you know, one of the most important is upgrade ability. Tezos features a formal mechanism by which network participants are able to upgrade the protocol through a amendment process. If you watched our previous episode, I kind of went into depth on that. And just really in general, if you’d been involved within the Tezos community, you’re quite aware of what that process consists of. But essentially there’s about four stages where a new proposal has to go through and upon successful completion of those four stages decided upon by token holder voting. It eventually gets passed and implemented into the protocol. You know, we see things like zk-SNARKs, which, you know, is actually supposed to be within the next proposed protocol amendment. Essentially any of the newest features or tech that emerges within the space. They can be effectively ported on to the Texas protocol within this amendment process. I think in the long run, this feature will really allow Tezos to last that much longer and be able to evolve and continuously adapt to changing times.

Brian: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. On the upgrade ability of the blockchain cause so many chains out there, especially if you get extremely decentralized. It’s kind of it can be quite difficult sometimes to organize all of the operators of the nodes. It’s like at this time you have to upgrade the software. Sometimes people aren’t paying attention. Sometimes people just don’t care. And those kinds of human initiated behaviors should not affect how the network runs. Right. We want the network to be able to upgrade itself. Tezos is upgrade ability really allows you to do that.

So unlike other chains, once something is decided on the the node software can actually update itself. That’s something that is quite unique in this space. And I think it’s something that not enough teams are thinking about because there’s quite a lot of chains out there that aren’t extremely decentralized at the moment. They might have, you know, 15, 20, 30, 50 nodes, which in the grand scheme of things with billions of people on the planet, it’s not very, very decentralized in that sense. You know, it is decentralized, but there’s different shades of decentralization. And in order to get all of those people who who are operating the nodes in order to upgrade the software, it’s not that difficult when you have 20 people to contact with.

But if you get into a situation where the network becomes more and more decentralized in terms of geographical distribution and the numbers of people that the network represents, that’s where you run into issues of coordinating people, into upgrading to the latest version of the software. So I think that’s very important that this chain can do that by itself, because blockchain right now is in a very fast paced evolutionary stage. It seems like every month or two we have different changes in laws. And you also have to account for different laws around the world, especially when you’re doing things like as STOs cause, for example, securities in the United States.

You know, it’s overseen by the SEC and they have constantly evolving guidelines on what’s okay, what’s not okay. So you really want to like if you’re going to get into tokenized and stuff on blockchain, I think it would be smart to adopt a chain that can really easily upgrade itself, to tailor itself to the regulations that changes over time without having to involve hundreds or potentially thousands of people to upgrade their software. Because if there was no method to efficiently upgrade or push in new tech changes like zk-SNARKs, as you said, I don’t think Tezos would be a good long term solution for holding value. But since we do have this, I think that’s what makes it really attractive proposition for for people to do as STOs have more thoughts on on that than I’ll share in a little bit. But did you have any thoughts on what I just said?

William: Well, yes. So actually, when you brought up decentralization and other projects, you know, one thing that really kind of makes Tezos stand out, I feel, because I’ve been involved within the community for quite a while when building everything out, they really put a lot of emphasis into kind of getting all these harder things done first. Is something I think other projects really take for granted or just really just don’t even consider at all. But, you know, within Tezos, there’s always been a huge focus on safety. You know, language, design and architecture. You know, I think in the long term, these things will really play off.

Brian: Yeah, I completely agree. I think things like safety and things like just a really high focus on how the blockchain performs is is really, really important to talk. Well, early on, as you’re developing, you know, the culture and also the operations of the blockchain cause I think that’s what really draws in the institutional players. You know, these people with billions in capital are not going to onboard onto a chain that either has no way to mathematically prove the outputs of smart contracts or or even like culturally. I feel like there’s a language that you should speak, whether that’s actively speaking or you present it passively in a way through how you build out your network. I think that Tezos is definitely on the right track with that.

So with that said, I want to go ahead and dove in2 STOs and talk about what they are and why they’re important and why Tezos is so successful of this in such an early stage. So as T-O, as we mentioned earlier, is security token offering. It’s the idea of token sizing illiquid assets onto the blockchain in order to give it liquidity and also to democratize it. And we’ll talk about what that means in a little while. But let’s go over illiquid assets first. So, you know, what is a liquid asset like the cash in your pocket? Right. You can quickly change it for something else. You can go to the store and buy a Pepsi, though. I don’t recommend drinking soda because it’s not healthy for you. Don’t drink soda. But an example of an illiquid asset would be a skyscraper building. Right.

Typically, illiquid assets are they have a number of barriers that make it hard for normal people to either invest in them or to trade them. And also, there’s some road blocks and some inefficiencies when it comes to price discovery. By token, izing these illiquid assets, like let’s just say you had a skyscraper and you wanted to tokenized on the blockchain. What does that mean? Well, that means you split it into shares that are essentially represented by a blockchain token. Transactions on the blockchain are immutable. You can use that property in order to safely assign value to words, different parties and those parties retain control of that value through control of a private key.

This allows for something that’s very much impossible or inefficient when it comes to illiquid assets. So and that’s fractional ownership. And I think this is really important because you can’t exactly slice up a skyscraper and pass it on to five people, cause that destroys the value of the building. And I also don’t know how you would do that. So by allowing for fractional ownership, I think you’re really giving access to more people in order to buy in. Right. So like if you wanted to buy a share of stock, that’s a thousand dollars that you don’t have a thousand dollars. You can’t buy that share of stock. There are other ways to buy fractionalized stock. Like like the cash out, for example, you can log into the cash shop. This podcast is not sponsored by cash app, by the way.

But if you log into cash app, you know you can buy a fraction of Apple stock. Let’s take that as an example. That’s really important because it allows for more participants in the market and it allows for more capital to flow into the company, perhaps cause you suddenly have a lot more people that are able to invest in the company and help the price get discovered. When we’re talking about illiquid assets, it’s not just illiquid on the financial side. It’s also illiquid on the perspective of how that asset can interact with other kinds of assets. So, for example, if you on-board value to a common protocol, let’s say in this case the Tezos blockchain, if you have these tokens that represent skyscrapers, stock bonds, like whatever financial instrument, you know, you can subject those assets to smart contracts that you can integrate with chain link or something like if you wanted to execute a transfer of a.

Organized security based on some sort of real world data feed in a decentralized fashion. You can’t do that without onboarding the asset onto the onto the blockchain first. And if you want to do that in a decentralized fashion, you really need to have decentralized oracles, which is why I also think the integration with CHAINLINK is a pretty big deal. So that also allows you to do things like programmatically issue stock or something based on the conditions embedded in the logic of the smart contract. That’s really something that you can’t do otherwise. Just because I don’t think the current vehicles of value transfer really allow for some like that. And if it did, I think the administrative costs would be quite high cause none of that is put into a smart contract.

William: I think another interesting feature, you know, with Tezos specifically real estate, which has been notoriously difficult, is actually being able to be paid dividends as token holders. These dividends that you will get paid out will actually be derived from real value. You know, like the skyscraper, for instance, rather than being given a bunch of speculative tokens or, you know, having some imaginary value that is, you know, just based on an infinite burning supply. I think over the long term, if STOs really pop off, it would really make a few people start to think like, well, why would they want to just hold all the surplus of cash within a bank account and, you know, earn these notoriously low interest rates, which, you know, I can’t really think of more than a few that are over 1 percent. It will really make them think, why would they do that just to earn that low interest on their dollars when they can transfer it to something like real estate and essentially have the same liquidity as those dollars.

Brian: Yeah. And that’s a really great point. I didn’t even think about it from necessarily an investment perspective, but that’s really interesting because when you onboard previously illiquid assets onto the blockchain and like we said, skyscrapers, but does it also apply for things like luxury art, which is notoriously reserved for the rich? Let’s just say, right, because, you know, you have to go to an auction house and how do you even get invited to that auction house? Right. You need to know someone. There’s like social norms involved that you have to spend years trying to build up relationships with various other rich people in order to get invited to a room with other rich people to bid on art. If that could be tokenized onto a blockchain, which we’ve seen some examples of just in the recent year or two, it is picking up steam. Stuff like that is really exciting for us common people, because not only does it allow us to own a piece of art that we enjoy and like, but it also allows for building more complex instruments that our blockchain base that people can also invest in as well.

So whether that’s like making a token that exposes you to a skyscraper, luxury art stock and bond and you form that all into one basket of financial instruments, you know, stuff like that is is quite cool because then you can also do like real time percentage changes of like, oh, now the price of art has gone up or something, whatever. And then you have a data feed that the smart contract is listening to and then it automatically readjust the exposure. You know, there’s all these kinds of really cool investment instruments that now something like as STOs really allow for. And like you said, I think it’s it could become quite an attractive proposition for investors if STOs become a fabric of our world where it’s common for people who own real estate, you know, to to onboard that value onto a chain that can be collectively owned by many people around the world. I think if that happens and more and more of that is happening as we speak, it could really make for a really cool future. And I think lots of trading volume on details as blockchain and just going off.

William: And that’s a lot of people seem to get the idea which we entered on previously in our first episode. That’s what we see all these dollars. Figures. They’re going to immediately transcribe to, you know, Moon took him price fly out the roof, right. But the SVO stage, specifically with real estate is definitely at a very early adoption level. And actually, I believe around late February, I interviewed Ryan Lackey of the Tezos Foundation and he shared a few thoughts on exactly where he sees the current level of infrastructure and regulatory processes at the present time. So I’ll just go ahead and read off some of his quotes in terms of infrastructure and regulatory process. It’s still pretty early days for the SDL market, but there’s a lot of interest on both the issuer side and by other financial intermediaries and regulators and doing it well. Some jurisdictions Thailand, Singapore, UK are moving pretty quickly by one has great regulations and a very forward thinking regulator.

Singapore, as always, is very business focused and has been revising regulations, including a new payment services act based on the needs of both the market and consumer protection. And the UK has been very good at running a sandbox, allowing experimentation in total and lower total value deals. There are also a lot of ways to make as teals work under existing regulations and countries with a history of favorable regulations toward business, having not have a obvious lead in doing as CEOs. But there’s also a potential for countries with a less developed financial industry to leapfrog by adopting the best regulations globaly.

Infrastructure is also evolving. There are some important early players like Securitize and tZero who are continuing to evolve and newer entrants like tokin, soft fundaments and global cap. So in case no one was aware, Elevated Returns is actually working on an exchange. Were you to be able to buy and trade SD was on? I think just with Ryan’s quote there, it really goes to show how Tezos is really deliberately focusing on the securities token market and they’re trying to specialize in that and bring all these tools like we have fundamental Burgard, for instance, who has partnered with the Tezos Foundation to build out infrastructure. And they’re trying to facilitate all this and make Tezos really an easy home for security tokens. You know, when you look down the line as this market begins to cultivate, it will likely look towards Tezos’ being as it’s deliberately focused on specializing in that market.

Brian: Yeah, it’s very important to find your niche in the space. So, for example, now I would say in 2020, when you’re talking about store of value, first thing that comes to mind is bitcoin. Second thing, you know, if you’re talking about smart contract execution or the buzzword, you know, decentralized computer, the first thing that comes to mind is going to be it thearea.

William: And when you talk to him like coin, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is not substratum or substrate. Right. But there so be that. It’s not even anymore. Right.

Brian: I think that by focusing on the STO niche, really it’s really great for Tezos because it’s obviously. A good use case for the blockchain. And if you’re so focused on it, like first mover advantage is a thing in blockchain, like there is a reason why when people think store of value, bitcoin comes to mind first. So if Tezos becomes the dominant player in the SVO space, it would totally make sense in the future. When this is more widely adopted, I think one of the biggest bottlenecks now or I guess two of them would be not only the regulation side which will take time in order to develop. It’s also the infrastructure side. If people wanted to on-board trillions of dollars of value onto a blockchain right now, I’m not convinced that would be possible at the moment. We’re just not built out for that kind of scale at the moment. So by investing so much time, energy and capital into a very specific sector, which Tezos is doing very well with as STOs, I think that will definitely bring value to the chain in the long term.

And I’m not talking about speculative value because I think people get confused about that sometimes, you know, like they see, oh, this company is going to tokenized 5 billion worth of skyscrapers onto the Tezos blockchain. That doesn’t mean the market cap of Tezos is going to suddenly increase by 5 billion. Now, that’s not what this is, but I think the consequence of the collective value of Tezos being the go to platform for this kind of thing is going to push the value up of the Tezos token more than people might expect.

I think when your platform becomes the monopoly or the first toits for other people to lock up things that are valuable, you bet that your platform should be more valuable than all of the things that people are locking up on your platform. Yeah, I think that we’ve covered enough about estimates for now. If you guys have any questions. Be sure to share them with us and we’ll discuss them in a future episode because it’s obviously a huge topic. I don’t think we covered every single detail, but hopefully that was a good overview for you listeners out there.

William: Yeah, absolutely. If anyone has any more questions. Definitely feel free to leave a comment. But I think we can go ahead and move it on to our next topic. And that’s the Tezos Academy. Brian, would you like to discuss the release of the public beta of Tezos academy from octo technology?

Brian: Sure. I actually got to play around with this earlier this week. I think it’s pretty cool. So it’s pretty neat. I played around that, too. One of the biggest barriers of entry when it comes to programing is smart contracts is there’s just so much to learn. And it’s a different way of thinking compared to developing traditional apps for your iPhone or for the web. You really have to think in a way that like, first of all, you better have a use case for like why this program needs to be decentralized and run across a bunch of nodes rather than just, you know, an app on your iPhone.

So that’s like the first thing that you have to think about. And and after that, the term smart contract, I think puts a lot of people off, especially if you’re a beginner. You might have so many questions like why is it a contract and what makes it smart? So I think it’s very important to to create pathways and tools for people of all ages as well as how skilled they are. It’s important to cater to everyone because I really think that in the future, coding will be a way of life. I think kids are smart, are going to start how to learn to code maybe in elementary school.

Not only are they going to go to English class, math class, they’re gonna go to a computer science class because quite frankly, like fifteen years from now, if you don’t know how to code, I think you’re putting yourself in a slight disadvantage compared to people who are going to be well versed in that area. So by lowering the barrier of entry and this is exactly what this academy is aiming to do, they have essentially distilled the process of writing a smart contract on Tezos into a game. And this game involves spacecrafts and commanders and the user interface looks quite cool. It looks very easy to relate with.

You know, it feels like just playing a game on your. No switch or something. Know it’s not it’s that kind of vibe. Yeah, that’s very important. And it teaches you how to write smart contracts in a high level language called Logo or LIGO logo, which is a high level language as opposed to the Michelson programing language, which is what LIGO eventually compiles to. It’s much more difficult to write in Michelson just because I think the way the syntax is setup and the way that you have to functionally think about it is quite different from what beginner coders are capable of and are interested to do so by having a language like LIGO, which I believe is similar to Pascal.

It’s it’s pretty cool because as a beginner you’re going to want to learn a language that I guess has more abstractions and essentially has a syntax that’s easier to understand. For example, in LIGO, if you want to declare a string or something, declare a variable, the syntax to do that is a lot more simpler than what you would have to do in Michelson. And I think that’s pretty cool. That’s Tezos is both focused on the super technical people as well as new incoming people who right now might not be extremely skilled at coding, but they have a high level of interest. And perhaps with practice in a year or two, they might be very valuable to the community and also the ecosystem. So, you know, we want to be all inclusive and we want to allow an on board as many people as possible. You never know who’s going to be a star in the future, I think.

William: Yeah, absolutely. Just going off that a little bit. Developer education is definitely super important. Like Brian actually had a chance to play around with Tezos Academy. I think octo technology did a really good job with us.

Brian: Yes, super cool game will definitely link it in the description below. So I think everyone should go ahead and check it out. Like you might not think that you would enjoy writing a smart contract on your weekend, but you never know. It might become your new hobby. The next topic that we want to cover is the invited ecosystem. Do you want to take a look at that, Will?

William: Sure. So recently I had the chance to jump on a call with Carl of Andriessen of BMW Group and kind of just really detailed what all is being worked on there, because for quite some time I’ve been seeing a lot of questions on this, particularly stemming from the fact that there’s not a whole lot of information in regards to it, but it’s a very interest, interesting project that Carlo is working on. And I think to clarify a few things. It’s not just all these big names. There’s quite a few big names associate with us, such as BMW, Audi, Daimler, and many others. What’s your dream car? Well, my dream car yet. Lambo. Lambo. I’m just kidding. Honestly, I’m not too into the expensive taste. I would really like probably an Audi A8 or a BMW 550i.

Brian: I don’t know where you’re from, but I think I would consider that to be expensive.

William: Well, I mean, like you compare to Lambo, right? That’s yeah. Well, that’s obviously a massive gap. Lambo is only for crypto influencers who shill Bybit referral links.

Brian: I think I’m also like, you know, I don’t really want a Lambo or a Ferrari, but I think, you know, a push nine eleven would be pretty cool for me. No, not really. Like super expensive, but I think I would like to drive that.

Brian: Continue with what you’re saying.

William: Anyway, what I was trying to say is you you see all these big names, but it’s not like this is something that is just coming. Officially, if that makes any sense, what this essentially is the invited ecosystem it is comprising of all these large automotive manufacturers. And there’s a working group in this working group is kind of this collective that is focused on defining mythology or standard based and machine based proof of validation for autonomous driving functions. I think a good way to really explain what all is going on here is to first look at automated driving when we look at automated driving. It requires standards. That’s all car manufacturers must adhere to. These implemented standards require certification from the appropriate entities. The surf fication requires verification by appropriate entities as well, such as regulators, inspectors, etc.

So it’s really a long road to develop out these standards, and it’s very difficult to make use of these testing of Ahmet’s to build out these standards, have them certified in a public setting, since there’s so many different things that you have to account for, you know, such as, you know, somebody flying right in front of you, you know, when you’re making a turn. There’s just numerous amounts of obstacles that can arise in this real-world setting.

So due to the number of possibilities, these standards, the development of them need to make use of a virtual environment, which when you combine this working group collective, it makes sense to have all these automotive manufacturers working together as opposed to, you know, just having, say, BMW working on it themselves, because you need things like map data. You know, you need things like traffic data. And, you know, you have all these other companies working alongside within this collective that can provide this information and allow this ecosystem to be able to move at a greater pace than it would just, you know, say happen BMW working on it.

Brian: Yeah, I think it’s really important to have standards, whether those are open standards or just internal standards within the industry that are designed by a consortium of manufacturers. I think that’s really important cause accidents and things like that. You know, that’s those things aren’t exclusive to a certain brand of car. You know, it’s not only Lambreaux that are going to be crashed because crypto, people don’t know how to drive. Any car is going to crash. And if and there are a bunch of different car companies now looking into autonomous driving that. Yeah, I think it’s about time to seriously consider standards for for something like that.

William: Right. And like I was saying previously, you know, the development of these autonomous driving functions, they need to account for, you know, upwards of millions of pieces of information. Really, what we’re seeing within here, test designs, you know, results of each manufacturer’s tests, additions that they may add within this collective to the virtual environments they create, they can all really benefit from a distributed realtime database and also, in short, blockchain. I saw a lot of confusion around that. Like, you know, oh, here’s BMW, here’s Audi. Here’s Pausch. We’re throwing Teslas on there. What’s this have to use with blockchains? It just high. No. There’s actually a very, incredibly large use case for blockchain technology here.

Brian: Yeah, I would encourage anyone who hasn’t read it already to go ahead and and read your posts. I think it’s pride. Some really good insight from Carlo, who’s someone who’s embedded in the industry. So, yes, I think that about wraps it up for this episode. Did you want to say anything else? Well, before we close it out.

William: I have a few closing thoughts. Firstly, I would just like to thank everyone who showed all the positive feedback and reception on our first episode.

Brian: Yeah. Definitely. Thank you to the Tezos community. And thank you to Tezos Commons for giving us this platform to to do this podcast. So if you’re listening to this, be sure to go ahead and subscribe. Whether you’re on YouTube, whether you’re on Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button so you don’t miss any future episodes, and thank you for listening to TezTalks Radio.